tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16691733.post116888837324679445..comments2023-10-24T08:33:10.354-04:00Comments on Reformed Leftist (& Friends): Remove Confederate Flag from SC Govt PropertyPaul Huehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01276182482853030605noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16691733.post-1168969801267962582007-01-16T12:50:00.000-05:002007-01-16T12:50:00.000-05:00Tom: With the absolute popular rejection of Naziis...Tom: With the absolute popular rejection of Naziism and its symbols, please help me find a rhetorical shorthand in my attempt to obtain the same social prohibitions for the confederates. Both:<BR/><BR/>1. Opposed democracy.<BR/>2. Were premised on white supremacy, but the Confederates even more officially so.<BR/>3. Subjugated people based on racial categorization, though for the Nazis only 1% ofPaul Huehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01276182482853030605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16691733.post-1168969231663845292007-01-16T12:40:00.000-05:002007-01-16T12:40:00.000-05:00Tom: Please explain how you reject my equation. Of...Tom: Please explain how you reject my equation. Of course no two things are identical; if they were they wouldn't be two different things, but rather the same thing.<BR/><BR/>Do you equate the prohibition on drugs with the prohibition on booze?<BR/><BR/>The question is: how can people who agree that the German government should not officially fly swastikas or name streets and schools for Nazis orPaul Huehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01276182482853030605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16691733.post-1168903050886266782007-01-15T18:17:00.000-05:002007-01-15T18:17:00.000-05:00"Let's be nuanced enough to make historical compar..."Let's be nuanced enough to make historical comparisons without resorting to flat historical equations. Hitler and John C. Calhoun were both despicable human beings, but Hitler doesn't equal John C. Calhoun."<BR/><BR/>I agree, Tom. Paul is a good student of the George W. Bush "oversimplification" school of debate. Hence his comparison of the Iraq war to the US Civil War and WWII.Nadirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00674871983955369648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16691733.post-1168902462769862742007-01-15T18:07:00.000-05:002007-01-15T18:07:00.000-05:00I'm on board with banning the confederate flag fro...I'm on board with banning the confederate flag from public buildings, but I object to the statement that the confederate south was "no different from" Nazi Germany. No that their weren't similarities -- both regimes hinged on racism backed by state violence -- but they emerged from radically different political situations. Let's be nuanced enough to make historical comparisons without resorting Tom Philpotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12628086253733653673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16691733.post-1168899694434018142007-01-15T17:21:00.000-05:002007-01-15T17:21:00.000-05:00What shocks me is not that anti-black racism in th...What shocks me is not that anti-black racism in the north was pervasive, but that so many areas provided support for blacks. Many is the time that thousands -- sometimes 100s of thousands -- of whites massed together too rescue black escapees from southern slave snatchers. The abolitionist movement was real and substantial.Paul Huehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01276182482853030605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16691733.post-1168899544929119432007-01-15T17:19:00.000-05:002007-01-15T17:19:00.000-05:00Nadir wrote: =================================The ...Nadir wrote: =================================<BR/>The industrial north (almost as racist as the south) just didn't want the southern agriculturalists to have the unfair advantage of free labor.<BR/>================================================<BR/><BR/>You are espousing a myth. Slave labor was so expansive that the typical slave owner owed debts to northern bankers who financed the purchase Paul Huehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01276182482853030605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16691733.post-1168899319380335602007-01-15T17:15:00.000-05:002007-01-15T17:15:00.000-05:00"Slave labor was *NOT* free labor. To the contrary..."Slave labor was *NOT* free labor. To the contrary, it was more expensive than wage labor (then known as "free labor" because free people performed it in exchange for wages). This placed southern white businesses not at an advantaged, but rather at a disadvantage, which is why the southern economy was a wreck... and so much so that from 1800 until 1860 the white population's size froze in place, Nadirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00674871983955369648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16691733.post-1168899034414657962007-01-15T17:10:00.000-05:002007-01-15T17:10:00.000-05:00Nadir writes: ========================using that f...Nadir writes: ========================<BR/>using that free labor as an ecomomic advantage.<BR/>=======================================<BR/><BR/>Slave labor was *NOT* free labor. To the contrary, it was more expensive than wage labor (then known as "free labor" because free people performed it in exchange for wages). This placed southern white businesses not at an advantaged, but rather at a Paul Huehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01276182482853030605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16691733.post-1168898066834035772007-01-15T16:54:00.000-05:002007-01-15T16:54:00.000-05:00By the way, the references to Barak Obama were com...By the way, the references to Barak Obama were completely out of place in this story. I thought it was about the Confederate flag in SC. Why all the references to Obama in Chicago preaching to an African-American audience that isn't thinking about South Carolina at all?<BR/><BR/>Barak Obama would lose South Carolina as would Joe Biden. There is no relation.Nadirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00674871983955369648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16691733.post-1168897742241203822007-01-15T16:49:00.000-05:002007-01-15T16:49:00.000-05:00The only problem with your proposal is that it for...The only problem with your proposal is that it forces the racists underground.<BR/><BR/>This is why I feel racial conditions in the south are better for Blacks than in the North. In the south, you know who your enemies are. In the North, they lurk and hide using covert tactics.<BR/><BR/>I am certainly opposed to the Confederacy and the racism for which it stood. Others believe that racism is aNadirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00674871983955369648noreply@blogger.com