I love the Imus show. I watch it every morning. But I usually turn the channel during the comedy bits. The jokes in question -- calling the girls from a college basketball team some "nappy headed hos" -- I find mildly funny. Two black folks that I discussed this with yesterday (Nicole) and this morning (Andrew) found Imus' joke funny, and both said: "That sounds like what most black folks would have to say about that team".
What I find disgraceful is the conduct of the people demanding that Imus get fired. Imus (and when I say Imus, I mean him and the other guys on his show) didn't say that all black women are hideously unattractive, just that one group of girls. What triggered Imus' comments was that these girls have lots of visible tattoos, which I believe are indeed disgusting. I have spent nearly all of my social life with regular black guys, and I am certain that a very sizable portion of them had some similar comments for those girls, and "nappy-headed" would not have been one of the typical terms, but rather something even worse. Also, Imus commented on how "cute" the other team was, which was a team just as dominated by black players as was the insulted team.
When Imus had the guts to got to Al Sharpton's radio show and sit there for two hours taking a full-frontal assault, Sharpton brought out his own overweight, unattractive daughter and paraded her in front of the cameras to declare that when Imus insulted that one group of black girls, that he insulted all black girls, even Al's unattractive daughter. That is illogical nonsense. Imus in this incident called another group of black girls (ones with no obvious displays of tattoos!) "cute"; why doesn't that assessment apply to all black girls, including Al's chubby daughter? And by the way, Al's daughter isn't unattractive because she "fails to meet European standards of beauty". She's chubby, for one thing, and let's just leave it at that.
In addition, Imus regularly insults the appearance of many honkey women, including Ann Coulter, whom I can guarantee got even worse than these basketball girls, and yes, he has called her a ho... and even a skank! He also called his own honkey coworker Contessa Brewer a "fatass skank," and Hillary Clinton a fatass lesbo. No calls for his firing in any of those cases. Does that mean that Imus believes this of all cracker women? Imus even regularly refers to his own wife as a ho, and his show mates regularly claim that she cheats on him with various people.
Listening to popular black music, as well as popular morning FM black radio music shows every day, I cannot say that anything that Imus said in this incident is any worse than what I hear from those other sources, all without any significant fallout.
Then there are the fierce political positions that Imus takes, which usually coincide with those of the people now trying so hard to get him fired:
1. He hates Bush, and daily skewers the war in Iraq.
2. He led crusades to increase the veteran death benefit from about $10k to half a mil, and to improve disabled benefits, including the conditions at Walter Reed. In all these cases he held Bush and Cheney personally responsible. I do not think it could be possible to skewer and insult Bush and Cheney any worse than Imus does.
4. He advocated Harold Ford, Jr for a senate run for the past several years, and is perhaps singularly responsible for Ford's senate campaign, and for Ford becoming a national figure.
5. Imus loudly and regularly insisted that Bush's Katrina mishandling resulted from "racism".
6. Imus lambasted the anti-Ford ads featuring the white girl asking Ford to call him as "racist", heavily promoted Ford's senate bid, and denounced Ford's loss as a result of white racism.
Also:
- Imus regularly gives national radio and TV time to black musicians who otherwise get zero radio play, even from black radio and TV shows. This includes the Blind Boys of Alabama, which is all I can remember off the top of my head.]
- Imus also regularly publicized famous black Tennessee pastor Bishop Paterson, whom Imus credits with saving him from drug and alcohol addiction. Every day of Imus' broadcast he would play at least one Paterson excerpt as commercial segues, always praising Paterson's ministry.
- Has led, on his show, in the midst of all his "insults", very effective campaigns to replace toxic, chemical cleaning products with all-natural alternatives, and to get congressional inquiries into the toxic aspects of immunization.
I wonder how many honkies know, and have a favorable impression, of these black folks only due to Imus' advocacy. All this will be lost simply because some people just cannot permit other people to say certain things in public.
Imus' insult humor really does touch absolutely everything, including himself, his family, and the other members of his cast. In a nation composing 12% blacks, I doubt that as much as 12% of his insults go to black folks. He regularly says the worst imaginable things about fans of car racing, golf, hockey, about any white celebrities you can think of. If you haven't heard his almost daily imitation of NYC's Catholic Cardinal, including all-out mockery of the most sacred catholic rituals, leading a prayer, you are really in for something. The performer of this shtick puts a FedEx envelope on his head, and directs each sermon at Imus, regularly calling him all sorts of sexual deviants.
I do find it distasteful for a powerful person like Imus to ridicule people like the armature young women on that basketball team for things that they can't help, though choosing to disgrace your body with tattoos I call on all humans to help make that a source of disparagement. And I find Imus to be racist and sexist in the following way: He employs zero non-honkey males, and doesn't book enough non-honkey males. At least two of his cast members offer nothing of any interest, so there is no reason to believe that they represent the best-possible talent. He should at least replace the personality-less sports guy with somebody other than a honkey boy. He has promised to have a black person join his cast. If Rev. Al has his way and gets Imus fired, what are the chances that the replacement show will get the Rev. Al-endorsed issues publicized and pushed that Imus has, and a black cast member for a morning humor-politics show as Imus has promised?
The only solution I can imagine: people who are incensed by this need to toughen up and increase their toleration.
27 comments:
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/2007/04/imus_offlimits_.html
Very funny and telling. Now we hear from the journalist that Imus allegedly called a "cleaning lady" (he denies this). Turns out that he insulted her on air because she never returned his phone calls inviting her to appear on his show. So he was trying to have a black journalist on his show!
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/04/10/imus.rutgers/
Howard Kurtz, media critic for The Washington Post and host of CNN's "Reliable Sources,"... whom Imus once called a "boner-nosed, beanie-wearing Jew boy."
You will find other documentation of Imus referring to his station and network owners and executives as "money grubbing jews."
http://www.nypost.com/seven/04102007/news/nationalnews/imus_gets_the_old_heave_ho_nationalnews_john_mazor_and_david_k__li.htm
Imus uses the phrase "you people" in Rev. Al's show. Black people believe that the terms "you people" and "boy" are absolute indications of racism when used by white folks in referencing blacks. However, viewers of Imus will find that he uses the phrase "you people" all the time to describe various groups of honkies. But he is unaware that black folks have this special view of that term. Yet black folks are not all universal experts on the souls of all honkies, and lack god-like capacity to know if Imus' use of this term is the same as when Bull Connors used it.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17999196/
The Rutgers coach and team captains gave very moving commentaries. One problem: the coach referred to the team members as "articulate". Isn't it racist to call black people "articulate"?
I posted my LastChocolateCity post before reading Paul's post here. That is itself a comment, but...
No, Paul. I don't know about your friends Nicole and Andrew, but I don't think "most" Black people would make the same comment about the Rutgers team. They also certainly wouldn't find it funny coming from a redneck like Imus whose other insulting remarks are well-known.
You make it a habit of defending insulting remarks because you like to make them, not because there is anything intelligent about the people who say them.
I again say that just because people like Imus and Paul Hue do one or two things that could be characterized as not racist, their refusal to admit that they have racist tendencies when they consistently make racist remarks is idiotic and hypocritical.
Imus admitted his remarks were repugnant and repulsive. More than that, they were stupid and not funny.
Adding a token Black cast member isn't pennance. That's an insult. As Jesse Jackson said, why isn't there a single Black host of a talk show on any of the news networks? Soledad O'Brian just got reassigned. She was the closest thing to it.
I'm not sure that Imus should be fired for this remark, but he certainly has a history of insults that "cross the line". Rosenburg's Williams sisters remark is racist for sure.
1. He hates Bush, and daily skewers the war in Iraq.
So do 76% of Americans which, I would imagine includes a good number of KKK members who also think the war in Iraq is stupid.
2. He led crusades to increase the veteran death benefit from about $10k to half a mil, and to improve disabled benefits, including the conditions at Walter Reed. In all these cases he held Bush and Cheney personally responsible. I do not think it could be possible to skewer and insult Bush and Cheney any worse than Imus does.
Supporting the troops is an American issue. It has nothing to do with right wing or left wing or race at all. I'm sure Rush Limbaugh agreed with this initiative.
4. He advocated Harold Ford, Jr for a senate run for the past several years, and is perhaps singularly responsible for Ford's senate campaign, and for Ford becoming a national figure.
Several Black pundits (including me) believe that Harold Ford consistently works against the interests of Black people. This is almost the equivalent of supporting Allan Keyes, Clarence Thomas or Larry Elder.
5. Imus loudly and regularly insisted that Bush's Katrina mishandling resulted from "racism".
His eyes were open. How about you, Paul Hue? Where did YOU stand on that issue? Does that mean you are more racist than Imus?
6. Imus lambasted the anti-Ford ads featuring the white girl asking Ford to call him as "racist", heavily promoted Ford's senate bid, and denounced Ford's loss as a result of white racism.
And he would have been right. This doesn't mean his comments about the Rutgers team weren't racist. Because he recognizes racism doesn't mean he isn't racist. I'm sure David Duke would point to Adolf Hitler and say, "Boy! You think I'M a racist? Get a load of THIS guy!"
"He also called his own honkey coworker Contessa Brewer a "fatass skank," and Hillary Clinton a fatass lesbo. No calls for his firing in any of those cases."
Perhaps Imus should be fired then for his blatant and continuous disrespect of women. Perhaps by insulting the beautiful and intelligent women of Rutgers he has gone too far. Perhaps that is the proverbial straw...
"The only solution I can imagine: people who are incensed by this need to toughen up and increase their toleration."
I offer another solution. People who are pissed off should stop watching Imus, should stop buying products of his sponsors, and should stop watching other MSNBC shows like Matthews and Olberman. This would be tantamount to Paul's constant suggestion that the market should decide everything in the nation.
A right-wing patron at my Toledo show last week purchased my Distorted Soul cd, but wanted to know if the song "Guantanamo" was on the disc. She didn't like that song, but liked the rest of the music enough that she spent her money with me.
If MSNBC viewers disapprove of Imus, but still like Olberman, they can watch Matt Lauer in the morning and turn on Olberman at night. It's the American way.
"Listening to popular black music, as well as popular morning FM black radio music shows every day, I cannot say that anything that Imus said in this incident is any worse than what I hear from those other sources, all without any significant fallout."
Horsehockey.
As your good friend, Rev. Al said, claiming that since other people commit a crime it must be okay is the worst excuse in the world. If the cop pulls you over for going 55 in a 35 mph zone, he isn't going to let you off because someone else was doing 60. And that doesn't mean you didn't break the law.
And besides, commercial radio, MTV, BET and rappers are under constant scrutiny because of their degradation of women. Hollywood is under constant pressure because of violence, language and sex in movies and television. This is why we have ratings systems in TV, movies and on video games. This is why there are explicit lyrics stickers on albums, edits on videos and why some videos are not shown on television at all.
Perhaps there isn't enough pressure on these outlets. Again the marketplace speaks. MSNBC is gambling that Imus will do his two-weeks and come back with even bigger ratings than before.
But you can't say there isn't pressure or outrage. Tipper Gore, C. Delores Tucker and others made careers out of bringing pressure on these groups just like Sharpton has made a career in calling out racism.
"The Rutgers coach and team captains gave very moving commentaries. One problem: the coach referred to the team members as "articulate". Isn't it racist to call black people "articulate"?"
Obviously you haven't been paying attention. It's okay for Blacks to call each other racist names, but it isn't okay for whites to use those same names.
Wake up, Hue!
And who was the second comedian banned at The Laugh Factory for using the n-word? Damon Wayans!!!
Times they are a-changin'...
Time are changing... in a very negative way. Everybody seems to want to fire and punish everybody else for daring to say anything that they choose to feel "offended" by. That includes organizing boycotts, such as what happened to Bill Mahr for stating the the 911 tyrants weren't cowards, but GIs who fire from distant bunkers are. I say: fire nobody for such comments. If you refuse to tolerate one set of comments, how can you expect others to tolerate you?
Don Imus isn't racist, at least we can't conclude that from his comments, and I certainly am not racist. I do not advocate withholding any rights from, or affording any special rights to, anybody based on "race", and I do not believe that any "race" possesses any special capabilities or limitations.
Are black people such precious, thin-skinned, delicate babies that they need everyone fired whom some of them declare has "offended" them?
Imus started hating Bush when Bush had his maximum approval rating; he opposed Bush's invasion from the beginning.
I agree that these news shows lack enough blacks, especially as hosts of opinion shows. That I find to be an authentic issue, and one worthy of discussion.
When WNBA clips come on TV, I have found it a very common reaction of black guys to say something negative about the appearance of the women, usually employing the word ho or bitch. Never "nappy headed", of course, which is a term that indicates Imus and his team mates have only a superficial understanding of black culture.
Black women making these comments also I have found to be rather common. But would expect that with people like Nadir around, people watch their language in such matters.
So voting for or against Harold Ford Jr was an act of racism?
And judging me or Imus for racism depends entirely on any single comment we make, not on the totality of our lives (though the term "racist" applies to the totality of a person's life), and all such comments by all people are equal, so long as they belong to the same "racial" category? Any black guy says "black ho" = non racist (unless he votes for bush), Bull Conners and Paul Hue says this term = racist.
Voting for or against Harold Ford wasn't an act of racism. Voting for Harold Ford doesn't mean you are pro black. It meant you were pro-Democrat or pro-business.
If Black folks call other Black folks "nappy headed hoes", they have their own issues. Take it from someone who is proud of his nappy head: these women are not nappy headed.
I have said consistently, Paul, that you make racist statements. This doesn't mean you are racist in the traditional sense, but it means you make racist statements, and shouldn't be let off the hook because of them.
I've made racist statements before. The difference between you, Imus and me? I'll admit it. I'm not going to be a hypocrite about it.
"Are black people such precious, thin-skinned, delicate babies that they need everyone fired whom some of them declare has "offended" them?"
I don't advocate firing Imus for this statement. Perhaps for his general insulting nature and insensitivity, but not just for this statement.
He should, however, know that he can't just say whatever to people and get away with it.
And Paul, you should know the same thing. I have several friends who want to kick your ass because of things you've said. And you deserve your ass kicked because of some things you've said.
Imus and his crew deserves their asses kicked. A two-week suspension is a start. Let's see them come out of pocket for real. Let's see them go speak to some Black girls and talk to them about self-esteem and dignity.
"Are black people such precious, thin-skinned, delicate babies that they need everyone fired whom some of them declare has "offended" them?"
You crack me up with this.
You seem to feel that a right has been taken away from you because you as a white righty can not get away with venting your racial hatred publicly anymore.
NO HUE, we are not going to tolerate being demeaned, caricatured or slandered by the likes of you or Imus.
If you want to stand in your living room and yell racial slurs at the top your lungs, that is your right.
But it will not be tolerated publicly.
Get it?
One thing that this incident has demonstrated very clearly is that when you go make an instantaneous, off-handed characterization of people whom you see from a distance, you can be absolutely, glaringly wrong.
People who want to resort to violence as a reaction to the comments of another person have some real problems, and I pity them. I hope that they grow up and gain for themselves enough self-confidence and intellectual toleration that they can cheerfully handle living a world of diversity, which includes a diversity of opinion.
Why are you still blocking Uptown Steve??
Steve: I certainly "get" that you are a very intolerant person.
Nadir: I have not "banned" Steve, but merely rejected one of his comments, which chastised you and your friends for not assaulting me for comments that you oppose. I am not attempting to have Steve ejected from Blogger.com, I am not banning his comments which conform to my rules of comport, nor am I attempting to boycott or otherwise punish any blogs that post his comments which I reject.
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