Okay. Here is the history lesson.
According to the Wikipedia link above, Cinco de Mayo is not Mexican independence day. It commemorates the Battla de Puebla when Mexican forces defeated Napoleon III's invading French army. So yes, it is a celebration of a Mexican victory over Western imperialists, but not independence day.
Incidentally, they don't really celebrate the holiday in Mexico. It is more a Mexican-American or even more accurately, a gringo holiday.
Mexico was the name of the Aztec state whose capital was Tenochtitlan (currently Mexico City) so Mexicans have been around for thousands of years, even before the white man came.
Yes, the Spanish invaded what later became known as North and Central America. Many of them mixed with the Aztecs and Mayas who lived in what is now Mexico. Most of the people who live there, however have primarily indigenous geneology.
Yes, the US jacked the Mexicans for the land the Spanish had stolen from the people who lived north of the Rio Grande. Hence California, Arizona, Nevada and Texas have been Northern Mexico for quite some time now. Similarly, Miami is Northern Cuba.
That being said, the law that is being protested criminalizes all illegal immigrants - Mexicans, Guatamalans, Jamaicans, Croatians, Haitians, Laotians, Ghanaians, Vietnamese, French, Israelis, Canadians, British - everybody. And it makes anyone who aids an illegal immigrant a criminal. I mean, come on... It's a terrible law. Even Bush says so.
You guys will happily eat your illegal immigrant-picked Michigan apples and cherrys. Or your illegal immigrant- picked organic spinach and oranges. I'm surprised Paul hasn't hired some illegals to do his landscaping. (Perhaps they could paint your shrubery pink to match your living room...)
But I do agree on this point. Blanket amnesty is certainly not the answer. Many people say the US does immigration better than anyone in the world, but the US immigration system is still horrible.
So how come no one is advocating building a wall to keep those damn Canadians out?
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13 comments:
Nadir: The white Spaniards of Mexico defeating the white French constitutes no more of a defeat of western imperialism than does the 4th of July.
Nadir: Many states in the US are named after American Indians; tracing the word "Mexico" back to the Aztecs no more qualifies "Mexico" as a non-white racial distinction than do the terms "Illinois", "Florida", "California", etc. And surely you don't propose that the dirty, stinkin' honkeys from Spain and England are any less brutal and conquering than the freakin' *AZTEC*s!
Nadir: I paid an illegal Mexican immigrant to paint part of my house, including my beloved purple/pink salon. Our friend Andrew, who cropped shared as a child on the same Georgia fields where his black ancestors where slaves and his white ancestors were masters, hires them ALL THE TIME. At the prices this painter charges, I can afford to avail myself of him.
Do I want him deported or arrested? No. Do I want US immigration laws to make it easier for people like him to come to our country and become a citizen? Yes.
Do I sympathize with him more or less if he parades downtown demanding citizenship? LESS.
Nadir: Are you aware of Mexico's immigration problem on its own southern border, with central americans sneaking in illegally? Are you aware of Mexico's response to this?
Nadir: Please comment the the relative morality of the following:
1. The white folks of the US govt stealing Texas from the white folks of Mexico.
2. The white folks of Mexico stealing Texas from the American Indians who proceded them.
3. The various American Indian groups who stole various portions of Texas from each other prior to the arrival of honkies.
4. The Asian Mongols stealing Hungary from the indiginous people there.
5. The Arab Muslims stealing the western 2/3 of India.
6. Various groups in India stealing each other's lands.
7. Freed black American slaves stealing Liberia from its indiginous inhabitants.
8. Your wife stealing my stainless steel coffee mug.
9. The Japanese stealing the eastern part of China.
Nadir: Why is Mexico building a wall on its southern border? Is there a significant phenomenon of Canadians crossing illegally into the US?
Nadir: If you snuck into Mexico, what rights would you have?
Tom: When you resided legally in Mexico, did you have the right to purchase any real estate, even your own home? Do illegal immigrants in the US have such rights?
It seems to me that of all the countries on this earth that sizeable numbers of people immigrate to, the US is one of the least that any ILLEGAL immigrants need to be protesting AGAINST. I can surely understand politely and respectfully asking for citizenship. But *demanding*?
Paul, most of the people of Mexico are of primarily indigenous stock. Like many other countries, most of its leaders have been white, but that is not true of MOST of the people.
Napoleon attacking Mexico was certainly Western imperialism just as Hitler invading France and Poland was Western imperialism. Both were seeking to expand their empires. The fact that they invaded Western nations does not negate the fact that they were Western imperialists themselves.
Many of the people who are invading Mexico's southern border are trying to make their way to the US. Neither the US nor Mexico should be constructing walls on their borders. And neither should Israel.
Stealing is wrong. Taking over lands won in battle isn't right. What evidence do you have that indigenous North Americans "stole" land from someone else? Native American cosmology doesn't allow ownership of the land. The land was here before people, so how could people "own" the land? They may drive someone off of their hunting grounds, but they don't "own" those lands.
I'll return your coffee mug.
What do Mexico's immigration policies have to do with US immigration policy? If Mexico has horrible policy, what difference does that make?
The protests that have been staged are not protests demanding citizenship. They are protesting a proposed law that criminalizes illegal immigrants and anyone - citizen or not - who aids illegal immigrants. This is what the protests are about.
You white Americans are just afraid of losing a country that you feel you rightfully stole. But that isn't the issue. Once the proposed law is no longer up for consideration, protests will cease.
Nadir: I didn't steal anything. But you and I both have white ancestors who did (though apparently neither have white ancestors who participated in the stealing of land from the whites of Mexico). You also have African ancestors who stole land from other Africans.
You seem only aware of some American Indian cultures, with regard to land ownership. The Astecs, Incas, and other brutal conquerers may have had some appealing description of ownership; I don't know. But I know that they controlled lands, that the lands that they controled they expanded by killing and enslaving people in new land, and they expelled anyone who crossed into the lands that they claimed for themselves.
I don't know how they described their possession or control of the lands that they claimed for themselves; the descriptions of this control may constitute appealing language, but that does not mitigate the brutality and the absoluteness of their control and expansion.
Nadir: I am aware that most Mexicans aren't white. But that doesn't make it logical to treat the term "Mexican" as a racial surrogate. Perhaps most Spanish speakers on the earth, and those who have Spanish sir names, aren't white either.
Are you proposing the use of "American" to indicate "white"?
How do you feel about white people with spanish sir names -- descendants of slave masters, and killers of American Indians -- qualifying for US affirmative action?
====Nadir: What do Mexico's immigration policies have to do with US immigration policy?
=====
Many Mexicans in Mexico -- including its govt leaders -- and Mexicans in the US are loudly protesting US govt immigration policies that exactly match those of Mexico itself, but they are not protesting those Mexican policies. This is a blatant logical paradox that deserves consideration and explanation by these protesters.
Many countries on this earth have immigration problems similar to that of the US: people illegally streaming from a dysfunctional nation into a better-run neighboring nation. The Dominican Republic has this problem with Haitians. South Africa has this problem with Zimbabweans. Mexico has this problem with Central Americans. The US has responded less stringently than these other nations, but ironically faces the only international and internal protests.
Although I agree with you that the origination of Isreal is unjustified and a major mistake, it exists now, and foriengers at it borders include a large fraction who have literally devoted their lives to crossing the border and killing Isrealis in an attempt to eliminate Isreal. Why wouldn't Islrealis build a wall?
Why don't you think that any nation should build walls to control their borders? Do you have walls in your house? Do you lock your door? Do you control who enters?
Nadir: "kfowler" proves that there does exist some Americans who oppose Mexican immigration. But people like Six and me do not oppose non-whites entering the US in huge numbers. For my part, I don't want any expelled, and I am grateful for the hard work that the illegal immigrants provide. So you have mischaractorized me as wanting to maintain a white majority/plurality in the US. Please restrict your comments to what you know, and avoid surmisations.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/04/us/04immig.html?ei=5065&en=e1be3496cd302bd2&ex=1147320000&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print
To what extent to *BLACKS* oppose Mexican immigration, on racist grounds, fearing their increased displacement as the largest "minority" group?
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