2006-05-12
Duke Lineup Problems
Nadir & Tom: Would you guys be so silent like church mice if some black basketball players got ID'd like this? What will happen when this *does* happen in the future to some black basketball players, if you sit by and let this happen now? With so many people either stone silent (like you two) or fully supporting the accuser, what happens in the future when a real rape occurs, and people remember this case?
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6 comments:
Hasn't this happened to blacks before?
Wasn't Emmitt Till beaten and lynched for allegedly whistling at a white woman?
Wasn't the entire section of Greenwood in Tulsa destroyed in 1921 because a man was falsely accused of molesting a white woman?
These two punks at Duke will get off because their rich parents will hire high priced lawyers, and because even though the DA is up for reelection, he has no loyalty to a black single mother and college student who just happens to be a stripper.
Why are you so outraged about this case?
You didn't express this much outrage when a black honor student was sent to jail for having consensual sex with his white girlfriend.
Why are you so adamant about this case?
Nadir: I was outraged by that. But that case didn't have daily developments or daily protests. I am absolutely apalled by that, every bit as much as this case.
I've already explained a few times why I'm outraged by this. I'm outraged because if you and Tom permit this to happen to some white punks, what ammunition will you have when it happens to some black punks? And if daily shouts of "racism" go up for a fake rape charge, who's going to listen when a real rape case occurs?
What about all the rich, punk-ass *BLACK* guys out there? Will you wait to speak up only when one of them gets railroaded?
Do you care that people are de-valuing the charges of "racism" and "rape" in the name of a fake allegation?
Has this happened to blacks before? Yes, it has. Do you only care whan it happens to blacks? Are you a racist? What does Tulsa in 1921 and Emmitt Till have to do with this, except to incite your emotions and cause you to either support a liar or sit on your hands while a liar uses all the emotion left over from 1,000 Emmitt Tills so that she can avoid a petty arrest in 2006 in a city run by black politicians where black folks couldn't even vote in Emmitt Tills day?
What's wrong with you, Nadir? Can you imagine in Emmitt Tills' day what would have happened if a black girl had called in a 911 that some white guys called her a "nigger"? NOTHING. Today, three cops show up in two minutes, and investigate for 12 minutes. But this girl now gets to use that dreadful history -- and the blood spilled to end it -- so that she can avoid a petty arrest. With her lie increasingly exposed, what effect does that have on people counting this as an act of savage racism, comparing it, as you have, to Emmitt Till and the Tulsa horror?
What better exemplifies the progress of blacks in the US, going from Emmitt Till lynched for whistling at a white girl, to a drunk black girl trading the lives of three rich white boys to avoid a petty arrest.
Yes, these white punks will get off. And yes, it'll be because they can afford to hire great attorneys, but not because they're fancy attorneys will unjustly set free some guilty rapists. Every year innocent men -- of all "races" -- get imprisoned due to fake rape charges, or misidentifications. One of them is the black honor student you mentioned, though even fancy attorneys couldn't get him off, and neither could his parents (who are white), nor his legion of supporters (also many whites).
People concerned about racism and rape should be outraged that false charges of both are being so successfully and outrageously used here. Nadir, do you only care about miscarriages of justice when they affect blacks? ARE YOU A RACIST? Are you paying attention to what this DA is doing? If he can used this sort of lineup to cage rich white punks, what hope do the rest of us have?
And the supreme court hasn't decided if bush has violated the law here, but that doesn't stop you from commenting loudly and often, as it absolutely required for effective governance. Why in this case are you willing to close your eyes and mouth? If all the facts were the same, but the "races" flipped, I doubt that you would have either shut. In the case of the black honor student, for example, the jury spoke, and the judge followed the sentencing guidelines, yet you join me in rejected the outcome.
Will you only look and speak in such matters when a black person's liberty is at risk? Is that really the best way to protect the liberty of black folks (if indeed that is your only interest)? What credability will the protectors of black liberty have when their mouths and eyes only work when a black person's liberty is threatened? And when their eyes and mouths reliably close when a black person is using the system as this woman is?
With your closed eyes and mouth now, Nadir, what use will they be when some loutish, "thugish", black punk basketball players get falesly accused by a white stripper they've angered, when she confronts arrest on an unrelated matter, and tries to get off by falsely crying rape?
Nadir: Do you really want it established that these procedures used by this DA are acceptable? What happens, then, when these procedures get used on somebody that you don't dispise (rich white college students) but rather on somebody for whom you believe deserves justice? Wouldn't you rather have these procedures eliminated now, at the expense of these horrible white crackers, than to have them survive this challange, and be in place when somebody worthwhile gets in the judicial system's cross-hairs?
You have before defended at least one rich white cad (Bill Clinton). And another: John Kerry. Why not these guys? None are as rich as those guys. You felt that Bill Clinton got unjustly impeached, and Kerry unfairly criticized for his Vietnam service. You don't even know if these laccrosse guys are democrats/liberals. About 40% of voters from rich white areas are so disposed.
Paul, you have already prosecuted this case, found the Duke kids innocent and found the girl guilty.
What do you care about my opinion? What is there for us to debate?
I don't agree that these guys are getting railroaded. The media is hyping the case and making it larger than it is, but they are victimizing both accuser and accused. The DA is making some pretty pointed statements, but the Duke kids parents have rich lawyers who will defend them much better than you or I can.
They are in good hands, and once their lawyers get them off, they will go on to be capitalist, chauvanist pigs and captains of industry. I'm not going to cry for them.
I can only say that I defended Clinton once in saying that his impeachment was unjustified. Bush's would certainly be justified on many more important counts than lying about cheating on your wife.
Clinton SHOULD have been impeached for bombing the pharmaceutical factory in Sudan. And he should have been tarred and feathered for pushing NAFTA through. I didn't (don't) like Clinton. I view him (and Kerry) as Republican-lite.
I didn't defend Kerry either. I voted for him because I fell for the Anybody but Bush nonsense, and still feel my vote was wasted. His policy ideas were terrible and he was a horrible candidate.
I don't care what political leanings the accused or accusors have in the Duke case. It is irrelevant.
I don't understand why you want me to be as pissed off about it as you are. I have no sympathy for the accused because if they didn't do it, their lawyers will get them off. (Even if they DID do it, their lawyers will probably get them off.) I have sympathy for the accusor because of her economic status, however, if she lied, she should be thrown in jail for filing a false report.
Therefore my attitude is "Wait and see".
If a rich black kid (like Kobe) who could afford top lawyers gets accused of rape, my attitude would be the same. It is the thousands of poor black and white kids who CAN'T afford adequate representation who deserve your sympathy. Not these rich punks who probably did SOMETHING illegal, even if it was just supplying alcohol to minors (which I don't think is morally wrong).
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