To the extent that racial profiling exists and actually figures into the daily lives of anybody (Nadir, how many times have you been pulled over in our honkey subburb in the past year? For Andrew it is zero, for me it is one.), it is usually based on reality. White guys driving in certain high-crime black areas get profiled because they are much more likely to be purchasing drugs or hookers than random black guys; I have experianced this myself in my travels. How do I know that I got "racially profiled"? The cops (sometimes black, sometimes white) told me.
In those black neighborhoods, a car with multiple young black males has, relative to cars with a single young black male, or cars with older blacks, women, or children, a much, much greater likelihood of containing illegal drugs, firearms, open alcohol containers, stolen goods, and passengers with outstanding warrents. Unlike cars containing one or more white guys, cars with multiple young black males is much more common in these areas. Cops know these facts, even black cops. Tom Sowell and Walter Williams point out that when police in high-crime areas target cars comprising multiple young black males, they are making a rational effort to suppress crime, and these actions enjoy some support from constructive members of these communities. "Anti-profiling" laws hamper such efforts. Sowell and Williams opine that those who wish to eliminate such profiling should themselves target not cops acting rationally, but rather the wayward young black males who are giving their fellows such a bad reputation.
In this report: "Having a number of students from an Arab country arriving on student visas and disappearing is cause for concern." Yes, it is. Such a situation involving students with non-Arab names from France, Canada, Nigeria, Ghana, China, and India would not. This is racial profiling, and I'm glad that law enforcement officials are concentrating their efforts in this manner. Also from this article: " It would be regrettable if the misadventures or irresponsibility of a number of students damaged these kinds of programs." I agree. This is how reputations form.
Indians and Chinese used to have the following reputation, documented clearly Holliwood films from before 1970: stupid and lazy. Is this the reputation that they have now? Why not? Answer: the average actions of Indians and Chinese compared with the American average. Cops hoping to score a big bust will drive past ten cars carrying young male Chinese and Indians just to scrutinize one car carrying three black teen males, and to some lesser extent, three white teen males. Why?
13 comments:
Police stops due to racial profiling constitute unreasonable harassment. Stopping me because I am black is unreasonable. Stopping a car with four black guys or three white guys in whatever neighborhood is unreasonable if those people are not guilty of a crime.
A group of Egyptian college students disappearing on a trip to the US should cause concern only for the safety of those students. As they are college aged men who live in a repressive totalitarian society, it is likely they are carousing with prostitutes, drinking, reading pornography, visiting libraries or museums, dancing at nightclubs, finding a job or any number of other non-terrorist related activities.
Real advocates for immigration reform should be as concerned about white illegals, as there is a large number of European illegals who enter the country every year.
Paul's contention that a car full of black men is more likely to contain illegal drugs or firearms is unfounded and based strictly on his prejudices. Statistics show that the vast majority of drug users and firearms owners are white. A carload full of white teenagers is statistically more likely to contain drugs or firearms, yet those white kids are less likely to be profiled.
It has been proven time and again that there is no scientific basis for racial profiling. The only basis is racism and a desire to control people of color.
Times I have been pulled over in Westland in the past year: 0.
Times I have been pulled over in Canton in the past year: 1.
Times I have been pulled over in Northville in the past year: 1.
My conclusions about black and white crime statistics is based not on prejudging, but rather on facts which have been posted by me on this site. Blacks and whites do not evenly demonstrate the same behaviors. Even you, here, Nadir, assert that "the vast majority of drug users and firearms owners are white." So you do not believe that blacks and whites have identical average choice profiles in 2006, but only seem able to recognize where you think whites exhibit negative choice.
I agree that the majority of drug users and gun owners are white, but in terms of percentages, blacks are bigger drug consumers than whites (except for cars containing only white men driving through certain black neighborhoods), men more than women, poor more than rich, and whites more than Arabs, Chineses, and Indians. And black men have a greater likelyhood of possessing an *illegal* firearm. Also on a percentage basis, they are 2 - 8 times more likely (depending on the crime) than white men to commit the following crimes: murder, robbery, burglery, rape, car theft, and drug possession, and assault. Also they are more likely to have outstanding warrents for their arrest. White men are more likely to commit these crimes than black women, or Asian men (Chinese, India, Arab). These are documented facts, presented here before, and these are the crimes that patrol officers are charged with intercepting. Young white men have a much higher incident of these factors than older white men, and men driving with women and / or children. Surely cops in subburbs pay more attention to a car containing three young white men in a sports car on a Friday night than they do a black woman in a van with kids on Wednesday at 6pm.
I am unaware of illegal white immigration to the US, but am eager to consider facts on this subject. We live near one of the US's busiest border crossings, but I never hear of any massive daily crossings from honkey Canada. Terror strikes in democratic nations are at about 100% committed by muslims, specificly muslims from muslim countries, especially if we begin our calculation after Oklahoma City. That strike came from independant loners, whereas the muslim strikes have resulted from members of oranized international groups with leaders who regularly proclaim a war on the US and other democracies. I think it is illogical to "treat all incoming international visitors the same" when facts demonstrate that people with certain charactoristics from certain countries are more likely than others to participate in terror.
I adamantly oppose cops driving around and pulling over all black male drivers as a way of harrassing them out of the area. That plainly appears not to be happening. Blacks residents are pouring into Westland and even Canton. Nadir's been pulled over twice in a year, me once, Andrew and Brad (Canton resident) zero. I'm white, the other three black, and the average of the black drivers is lower than one. What about Nadir's wife and Andrew's wife? And my semi-wife? All black. Andrew's and mine: zero pull-overs. I have quite a bit of social traffic to my house, nearly all black. Zero reports of traffic stops travelling to or from my house, and zero resistance from anybody in traveling to my home out of fear of police hassle.
And Nadir has "lock" hairstyle, which most Americans -- black and white -- associate with drug use (for black and white donners of this style; my friend from Jamacia loves to proclaim that in Jamacia only 0.001% of the population has this style, and there they don't call them "Rastas", they call them "bums"). And Nadir, with this famous/infamous hairstyle gets pulled over twice in a year, versus zero for the other two black male residents whom I have asked, and 1 for me. The average non-locked black male pullover rate: 0, to my 1. I'm confident that to the extent that cops (black and white) pay special attention to a black guy with locks they would also for white guys with locks.
It appears that the notion of white cops harrassing blacks due to "racial profiling" is either a myth, or such a minor factor that it does not appear as a significant factor in anybody's life.
"Blacks and whites do not evenly demonstrate the same behaviors. Even you, here, Nadir, assert that "the vast majority of drug users and firearms owners are white." So you do not believe that blacks and whites have identical average choice profiles in 2006, but only seem able to recognize where you think whites exhibit negative choice."
My point here is that if you're going to profile, it should be based on behavior, not race. Anything else is racism.
"I agree that the majority of drug users and gun owners are white, but in terms of percentages, blacks are bigger drug consumers than whites..."
Percentages of what? The total black population? Whites are more likely to consume drugs and are more likely to own a firearm, legal or illegal. Legal weapons are used in crimes as well.
"Also on a percentage basis, they are 2 - 8 times more likely (depending on the crime) than white men to commit the following crimes: murder, robbery, burglery, rape, car theft, and drug possession, and assault."
Wrong. Blacks are more likely to be CONVICTED of those crimes, but not more likely to commit them. Don't get it twisted. This is because of a criminial justice system that disproportionately targets blacks.
"Also they are more likely to have outstanding warrents for their arrest."
See above.
"Terror strikes in democratic nations are at about 100% committed by muslims, specificly muslims from muslim countries, especially if we begin our calculation after Oklahoma City."
You have to say "after Oklahoma City", because if you include all of American history, you will find that more terrorist acts have been committed inside the US by white people than any other race. You will see that more bombings were committed in the UK by the IRA than have been committed by Muslims ever. You will note that more terrorism is commited by so-called Catholics in Latin America than anywhere else in the world.
Your racism and the propaganda of the US media is coloring your figures. If you used facts instead of prejudice, you would be targeting white southerners (of which you are one), Irishmen (of which you are one) and Latin Americans instead of Blacks, Arabs and Muslims.
"What about Nadir's wife and Andrew's wife?"
Akanke has been pulled over once in Westland.
"And Nadir has "lock" hairstyle, which most Americans -- black and white -- associate with drug use (for black and white donners of this style;"
I, however, say no to drugs and have never been arrested for drug possession. I am also not a bum and know of plenty of white men who would qualify as such.
"It appears that the notion of white cops harrassing blacks due to "racial profiling" is either a myth, or such a minor factor that it does not appear as a significant factor in anybody's life."
Yet you advocate its increase because you believe it will be helpful in catching more criminals. What has been proven, however, is that it disproportionately increases the number of non-violent offenders who are serving time in jail, and it increases the number of Black men serving time in jail.
LOW BLOW ALERT:
Perhaps this is why Paul favors racial profiling. It will leave more black women for him...
Ouch...
==Nadir: My point here is that if you're going to profile, it should be based on behavior, not race. Anything else is racism.
========
How can you profile based on behavior? Please explain this. By its definition, "profile" means to identify indicators of a hidden, banned behavior so as to increase your chances of identifying somebody who is hiding this banned behavior.
I am very interested in your proposal to "profile based on behavior."
And I am not proposing -- nobody is -- that police pull over every black male driver that they see, every day, at all times. Nor do I propose checkpoints where only black males get scrutinized for drugs, weapons, and warrents.
I support the concept of "probable cause", and am unaware of anybody who advocates pulling over cars of people just because the occupants are young men. No advocates of "racial profiling" support any of these procedures.
But we do support a national search for muslim visitors from a muslim nation who go missing, versus non-muslim visitors from Liberia, Colombia, or Spain.
I have been thinking about this topic and might be changing my position.
You shouldn't use profiling. You should only target people who are breaking the law. Preemptive strikes are a violation of human rights.
"But we do support a national search for muslim visitors from a muslim nation who go missing, versus non-muslim visitors from Liberia, Colombia, or Spain."
This is racism or religious intolerance. Take your pick.
When I lived in Nashville there were regular roadblocks at the corner of 28th Street and Jefferson right in front of the main entrance to Tennessee State University, a historically black university. (Great way for the locals to let out of town students and visitors know they are welcome, right?)
No such roadblocks were ever used in Akanke's swanky Bellevue or in my friend Rev's Laotian gang infested Antioch neighborhood. This targeting of Blacks simply increased the number of people who received tickets or were arrested for minor traffic violations or for doing nothing at all.
A couple of friends of mine were picked up for walking, and refusing to show id to the police, which was perfectly legal at the time. The USA Patriot Act now makes this a violation. They were doing nothing wrong.
How can you justify these actions when white people use more illicit drugs or own more weapons? How can you justfy this when neighborhoods with known gang activity are spared?
The facts are clear that on a percentage basis, blacks more than any other "racial" group (except for mestizos) are at 2 - 9 times more likely to commit the sorts of crimes that police target. But I agree with you that police should not and must not pull over people simply because they are black. Even black cops surely pay more attention to a car containing three young black men than playing loud music than one containing a black man, a black woman, and a child. If both are speeding, the cop knows which one has a greater likelyhood of yielding a big payoff.
I am happy to report that statistically, blacks are not getting stopped by police in numbers that exceed their representation in street crimes. I am also happy to report that anecdotally non-criminal blacks (who comprise the overwhelming majority of blacks) travel freely in the US with no increased risk for police interaction. This is one of many reasons that whereas people in other nations flee due to social and political repression, and lack of economic opportunities, not only to native black Americans stay put, blacks from all of the world travel to live here, and they, too, never leave.
The example of the TSU police checkpoint leads me to wonder if TSU officials requested this to keep out non-student criminals. Most black colleges have just such trouble, and to a significant extent. FAMU had a great deal of this trouble, which manifested with young new students from wealthy families getting mugged on their way home from on-campus parties. This happened quite a bit. Not one time did any report ever materialize of a black FAMU student getting assaulted by a local honkey, by the way. But violent muggings of wealthy freshmen who had not yet learned to dress-down was an annual occurance.
Prairie View A&M had a severe problem with Houston gang members going to on-campus parties and having gun fights.
I have never heard of any white colleges having this problem.
I would be shocked indeed if Nashville's honkey police department on its own setup a security check leading into TSU's campus.
Nadir: If I report that a white guy stole my car, would you object to police paying special attention to white men driving my car model?
That TSU roadblock may have reassured parents that their students would be safe from some previously reported violence on campus from non-student criminals. Nadir, is TSU located in a high crime area? I don't know the answer to this question, but your reporting that the police setup a checkpoint at the entrance strongly suggests to me that this is the case. Is it?
Does "racial profiling", then, explain why such a checkpoint would exist there, but not at places located in low crime areas?
And you call this "racial profiling"?
Nadir: In response to the situation in London, should police there focus their efforts on muslims with close ties to Pakistan?
I also got "racially profiled" a few years ago when I flew back to NYC from Bogota, Colombia. My hosts in Colombia warned me that I should expect targetting from US customs. I was. I go grilled, my belongings scrutinized, and I missed my connecting flight to Detroit; I had to sleep in the airport to catch the morning flight.
Here Brits announce a new airport screening rule that accouts for the fact that muslims have created this situation:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2313135,00.html
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