2006-03-17

Nadir's Ancestors Celebrated Today

Nadir's ancestors are noted for their singing, dancing, and athleticism. Maligned for much of history by Europeans for being lazy, drunken and prone to fighting and criminal activity, they have suffered nearly countless rounds of brutal conquest, with waves of subjugators stripping them of their native toungues, suppressing other cultural practices while imposing others, to say nothing of wholesale slaughter, land grabs, rape, and slavery. But they are also noted comics!

12 comments:

Nadir said...

Me and all my drunken ancestors are going to kick your ass.

sixstringslinger said...

I can tell this one, because I'm part Irish:

Q: Know why the Irish are so stoopid?

A: So they can understand the English!

sixstringslinger said...

Q: Heard the one about the 2 gay Irishmen?

A: Patrick Fitzgerald and Gerald Fitzpatrick.

sixstringslinger said...

Q: How do know the Irishman in a hospital?

A: He's the one blowing the foam off his bedpan!

Paul Hue said...

Six: I say you can tell these jokes even if you're not Irish. Things that I admire about St. Paddy's day:

1. St Paddy was not Irish; he was a member of the Irish's historic oppressor class, the English. This demonstrates that your true culture is what you experiance, not what you inherit genetically. If an englishman can become Ireland's beloved patron saint, anybody can fully and genuinely integrate into any culture.

2. The enemy foriegner St Paddy not only integrated into Ireland and its culture, he became their beloved leader and changed everything about Ireland's culture.

3. Nobody tells more Irish jokes than the Irish, and they absolutely invite the world to play along. They have no "nuclear terms" that will ignite a localized nuclear bomb if an "outsider" utters it. Here's an example of authentic pride and self confidence. Let some Irishmen here you say that the Irish are lazy and stupid. The reaction you can expect: none. Campare that to the lashing I got from Nadir for saying that a proposal to institute a kingdom in Iraq is backwards and unsophisticated.

4. The Irish make "everyone Irish for the day," a very welcoming, universal prospect that totally counters the seperatist message of sweet little Autumn.

5. This attitude is especially admirable considering the duration and intensity of the oppression and hardships that they faced (not that, like any oppressed people, they have also oppressed others; but of course, any oppressive people have also at points in history been oppressed!).

6. The Irish resistance to british rule in northern ireland made that region miserable and unprosperious for decades. When the IRA effectively gave up their demands about 10 years ago, that area began to experiance spectacular propsperity for everyone. The IRA used to have a relationship with the PLO. The Palistinians have much to learn from the irish of northern ireland simply giving up and going about their business. This is the only sensible strategy when fighting against a democracy. Why even fight against a democracy? Just stop fighting and start voting.

Nadir said...

The Irish were also notoriously racist in US urban areas during the turn of the 20th Century when blacks attempted to integrate factories. Though the Irish were oppressed in other parts of society, they participated in the oppression of others because they felt their jobs were threatened.

Africans have also had inter-tribal warfare for thousands of years and like the problems in Ireland continue, so do conflicts in Nigeria and Rwanda.

The IRA simply shifted its struggle from the military to the political arena. They could not sustain an endless guerrilla war against the superior British military force. They chose to make the war political and non-violent because the violence wasn't working.

Hamas has begun shifting its struggle to the political arena, and they would probably shift completely if Israel made a real committment to ending the violence against Palestinians as the British have in Ireland.

Nadir said...

My brother used to call himself "the Black Irishman". I guess he thought it was amusing.

Nadir said...

Black people tell more black jokes than anyone else, or haven't you watched Comic View or Def Comedy Jam. Richard Pryor, RIP, was the first comedian to openly joke about whites and blacks without doing so in a derogatory manner. His aim wasn't to insult people like Paul's is. His aim was to make people laugh at themselves.

The difference? Paul thinks his racist jokes are funny. Richard Pryor told racial jokes that weren't racist, but are still funny 35 or 40 years later.

Nadir said...

Note that Paul says on St. Patrick's day, everyone is Irish. Kwanzaa is a holiday that is trying to get African-Americans to acknowledge and have pride in their Africanness.

Through this approach to St. Patrick's day, the Irish present "an example of authentic pride and self confidence." Africans in America are still trying to cultivate that pride in ourselves, hence Autumn's poem.

Though you guys say blacks shouldn't make an effort to exhibit racial pride, you just spent this entire post gushing about Irish pride (and we all have Irish ancestors).

Thank you for helping me and Autumn prove our point. Why shouldn't I be allowed to be proud of my African heritage just like you guys are proud of your Irish heritage?

Nadir said...

And since all civilization began in Africa, you guys have an African heritage that you should be proud of as well...

So what's your defect?

Paul Hue said...

Nadir: I have no "Irish pride," and my comments celebrated not "Irish pride" but positive facets of St Paddy's day, facets I admire not because I have genes from there, but because my analysis of the celebration led to positive conclusions. One of the things I admire about St Paddy's day is that it accepts everyone as Irish; I recommend that concept for Kwanza.

I object to any aspect of St Paddy's day that assumes people with genes that trace back to Ireland should have some special pride in Ireland. However, this is a very small element of St Paddy's day, which is one of the reaons that I like it. Mostly it is a farcical celebration that takes itself fecitiously, right down to encouraging everyone to call it "St Paddy's Day", using a term that was very derogatory in its day.

Paul Hue said...

====Nadir======
And since all civilization began in Africa, you guys have an African heritage that you should be proud of as well...
===============

I agree with this, but do you? You say things like, "you enslaved us", which divides you and me into the most gruesome opposing camps, based on some of your ancestors having been enslaved by some of the distant cousins of my ancestors (none of whom were here during US slavery days).

Autumn's presentation deplorably divided classmates into groups, according to her assessment and catagorization of them into clashing racial groups, based on brutish and ignorant conduct of the distant ancestors of members of one of the groups.

I like activities that unify people, and disdain those that divide them.