More stats on those Asian students beating the doors down at elite US university admissions offices. Asians compose just 5% of the US population, but:
Harvard: 18%
Standford: 24$
UC-Berkeley: 46%
Princeton: 13%
And of course they achieve these numbers not only *without* affirmative action, but *despite* it, because racial "diversity" considerations cause admissions officers to reject Asian students with better credentials than white applicants. This issue fascinates me because it contradicts people on both sides of the issue whom I oppose:
- Affirmative Action advocates who believe that the US is a generally racist place wherein black folks can only match their general population composition at elite schools via affirmative action; these data prove that elite schools indeed admit qualified non-whites without AA.
- Affirmative Action opponents who believe that AA blocks whites from admission to elite schools; these data prove that without AA, even fewer whites will get admitted! Why? Because just as blacks in general are choosing not to study enough or as well as whites, whites are failing in the same ways in comparison to Asians.
2007-01-23
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"- Affirmative Action advocates who believe that the US is a generally racist place wherein black folks can only match their general population composition at elite schools via affirmative action; these data prove that elite schools indeed admit qualified non-whites without AA."
I don't know of any affirmative action advocate that would say Black folks NEED affirmative action to succeed. Most of us would probably say we wish there weren't a need for it.
The primary reason that affirmative action is needed is to correct the problems of failing public school systems. This is the reason Paul founded an organization called Ben Carson Lifetime Scholars. He saw that schools weren't providing these otherwise capable students with the necessary tools they needed to succeed in high school, in college and in life. He knew that all they needed was the tools.
Unfortunately, BCLS failed to help every student. It simply wasn't large enough. But we helped every student who wanted to learn and was serious about education. Most of those students also had parents who encouraged those kids to study.
This is the difference between most Asian students and most white and Black students. US culture doesn't encourage intellectual pursuits anymore. US culture is market driven. It encourages people to consume. It doesn't teach the values of education and hard work. Look at your president...
This is why recent immigrants - Asian, African, richer Latinos - come to the US and beat the pants off of white and black students here. This is why poor Latinos whose parents don't have the education or resources work harder than white and Black kids that have been here for generations.
I don't have the data, but I'd bet poor white kids in failing public schools perform on par with poor Black kids in failing public schools. But affirmative action is needed to balance against the rich white politicians, employers and admissions counselors who have discriminated against Black kids for generations.
The old addage is that Black folks have to work twice as hard to be considered half as good. This is still true. Many of my people don't believe we should have to work twice as hard, but that is the reality. My philosophy is suck it up and put your nose to the grindstone.
"I don't know of any affirmative action advocate that would say Black folks NEED affirmative action to succeed. Most of us would probably say we wish there weren't a need for it."
You just said the same thing twice. They don't need it; they wish it weren't needed. What's the diference? I'm not hungry; I wish I wasn't hungry.
"I'd bet poor white kids in failing public schools perform on par with poor Black kids in failing public schools."
I share your assumtion.
Lowering standards, though, won't help them. The data show that black and white students admitted with lowered standards get lower average GPAs and graduate at lower rates. Blacks, whites, and Asians with similar academic credentials, though, obtain similar GPAs and graduation rates.
"The old addage is that Black folks have to work twice as hard to be considered half as good."
What does that have to do with this discussion? Blacks are scoring lower by working less hard; the blacks, whites, and Asians who work the same amount obtain the same scores. Blacks who work "twice as hard" as any white or Asian student outscore them. The blacks who work *as* hard as any high-scoring non-black obtain high scores.
So the problem here isn't that double-working blacks are getting denied; the problem is that too manyblacks aren't working hard enough.
Compared to Asians, whites also on average aren't working as hard. Lowering admissions standards at UC-Berkeley and UM-AA for whites isn't helping them to correct this. That's why the average honkeys at these schools are getting lower GPAs and graduation rates.
"You just said the same thing twice. They don't need it; they wish it weren't needed. What's the diference? I'm not hungry; I wish I wasn't hungry."
There would be no need for affirmative action if racism and discrimination didn't exist.
Put it this way: with a level playing field there is no need for it. Since some muthaphukas cheat we have a referee. If we could trust the players not to cheat, the ref could go away.
And as it is, the ref in Michigan has been fired. We'll expect the cheaters to come out of the woodwork now. So we'll just have to find another way to win.
"I don't want nobody to give me nothin'. Open up the door and I'll get it myself." - James Brown
"It takes a nation of millions to hold us back." - Public Enemy
"There would be no need for affirmative action if racism and discrimination didn't exist."
And yet those non-white Asians beat the pants off the honkies without AA. Does this vague "racism" that you cite here apply only to blacks, and actually help Asians to get better test scores and higher acceptance rates at elite schools?
"I don't want nobody to give me nothin'. Open up the door and I'll get it myself."
Then why do you want AA? The success of the Asians proves that the door at elite schools is open to non-whites.
"It takes a nation of millions to hold us back."
Who is holding back black folks? All the black folks who you know who work hard and make other smart choices are doing great. Nobody his holding back black folks except themselves, just like all other Americans, save for a few occasional specific examples. Consider that college where some honkey frat boys staged the racist MLK party. Are the black kids there getting lower grades for the same work? Are employees hiring them at lower rates with the same credentials?
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