Surely we all agree on the need for as-close-as-possible to 100% accurate voting in the US. Every vote cast gets accurately counted, with all voters casting a single ballot and representing living people expressing their electorate desires in an atmosphere free of intimidation. Is it possible to achieve such a goal without govt-issued photo IDs and a record at each voting site of who voted? Without such a system, what prevents me from voting twice under my own name? And then a third time under Nadir's? And then again at a different site?
Nadir has claimed that "illegal immigration" is a problem not just from Mexico, but also from European nations. So without such US govt-issued photo ID card requirement, what prevents these dreadful honkey invaders going to Nadir's Westland, Mi voting site and voting for Bush and the anti-abortion ammendment?
It seems to me that lefties and righties must agree on several requirements for voting reform, and this must be one of them. This article has lefties equating a photo ID requirement with racist Jim Crow voter literacy tests. Are black folks in 2006 so intellectually feeble that although a photo ID requirement to drive, obtain employment, and fly does not "intimidate" them, it would for voting? Who are these black folks who would feel "intimidated"? Surely those making this claim are *themselves* strong and assertive enough to stand up to a voting official asking for an ID. So who is it that they are worrying about?
8 comments:
"Are black folks in 2006 so intellectually feeble that although a photo ID requirement to drive, obtain employment, and fly does not "intimidate" them, it would for voting? Who are these black folks who would feel "intimidated"? Surely those making this claim are *themselves* strong and assertive enough to stand up to a voting official asking for an ID. So who is it that they are worrying about?"
You're such a race-baiter...
Many elderly people and poor people do not have drivers licenses. Having a job is not a prerequisite for voting, so someone who is unemployed perhaps may not have an id.
From the Michigan Citizen:
"The Associated Press reported that a judge in the state of Georgia ruled against a similar photo voter ID law before its July 18 primary election.
“Where the right of suffrage is fixed in the constitution, it cannot be restricted by the legislature, only by the people through an amendment to the Constitution,” Fulton County Superior Court Judge Melvin Westmoreland wrote. He went on to rule that Georgia’s voter ID law “unduly burdens the fundamental right to vote rather than regulate it.”
The NAACP attorney said 622, 000 Michiganders or eight percent who are eligible to vote have no photo ID.
“Detroit has the highest number of senior citizens who do not have a photo ID,” Madison said. “Many senior citizens do not have photo identification because they do not drive. Many simply cannot afford it.”
She said 25 percent of women over the age of 65 have no driver’s license."
Of course, we know Race-Baiter Paul has no problem disenfranchising senior citizens or poor people who most likely will vote against his beloved Right-wing policies.
Many of us, however, believe that EVERYONE IN AMERICA who is eligible to vote should be allowed to vote even if they are poor, unemployed, homeless, young or old.
In fact, I'm sure Paul would prefer to go back to the 18th century when only property owners could vote. This would elimnate any of those pesky renters and college students from exercising their democratic rights.
Nadir: Do you object to a photo ID requirement? If so, why, and how can an accurate and reliable vote occur without one?
I don't understand your accusation here about me wanting to disenfranchise renters and students. Please justify this accusation.
Nadir: Requiring an ID does not constitute "disenfranchising." If it does, then the photo ID requirement for driving constitutes denial of the right to drive on the streets paid for by the taxpayer; the photo ID requirement for flying constitutes denial of the right to travel through the air space that equally belongs to all US citizens; the photo ID requirement for obtaining a job constitutes denial of the right of all citizens to work if they can find somebody willint to hire them; the photo ID requirement at public schools and universities constitutes a denial of the right to attend govt universities and the *REQUIREMENT* of minors to attend school; the photo ID requirement to have a bank account constitutes a denial of the right of americans to participate in the US monetary system; what about the requirement of a photo ID to purchase or rent a home, or obtain govt handouts? These 622,000 Michanders without a photo ID:
- Do not and cannot attend school.
- Do not and cannot drive a car.
- Do not and cannot fly on a plane.
- Do not and cannot own a house or appear on a rental lease (or do so in a domicile that they obtained many years ago when they had an ID, but now they cannot move! They are trapped!)
- Do not and cannot have a bank account or even cash a check.
- Do not and cannot purchase liquor or cigarettes.
- Are at risk of arrest when interacting with police because they cannot prove who they are.
... but they're voting. Do you have any figures showing what fraction of such people vote? If they're voting, these people are mustering enough courage and strength to register to vote... unless they're selling their vote, or unknowingly having somebody vote in their stead, frauds possible only because of the lack of photo ID requirements.
Do you want accurate voting or not? As is often the case with lefties, you demand a fantasy world with incompatable requirements: voting that is simultaneously accurate and free of photo IDs.
Those 622,000 eligable Michigan voters who lack voter IDs represent 622,000 chances for you or me to go to the voting precinct and assume those people's vote. Worse, what's to keep me from going to your voting precinct and declaring that I'm *you* (who has an ID!) and then voting in your place? The workers will strike your name off the list as having voted. When you appear to vote, you will get denied a vote because they have recored you as having voted. You're not even one of those 622,000 people who lack a photo ID; you at least have a means of establishing your identity. What about the guy who can't even prove that he's who he claims to be, after I've gone and voted in his place using his name?
Using your photo ID to prove that you are Nadir after I voted earlier using your name (and getting away with it because I didnt' have to show an ID), how then will you prove that *you* didn't already vote earlier that day, and now you are lying?
Without a photo ID requirement, what's to keep ruthless, immoral, racist KKKarl Roveian swines from paying Nadir, Six, Tom, and Paul $200 cash each to register them, and then sending that uncle tom, self-hating stooge Lynn Swan to vote four times (once for each of them), with the $200 purchasing our pledge not to attempt to vote ourselves?
What about the very requirement of voter registration? The old people and others who lack photo ID, do you approve requiring them to register in the first place? What about even requiring them to move from their bed to the voting precinct? Or lifting their hand to complete an absentee ballot? And then MAILING it?
Just one question, Nadir: Please explain how to have accurate voting without requiring photo IDs.
How does requiring a photo id insure accuracy? I'm not asked for a photo id now in Westland, and since they switched from the electronic voting machines, I don't have serious concerns about the accuracy of my vote.
Where voting becomes less accurate is once it leaves the precinct after the voting is over. When dead people vote, it is usually done after the polls close. There are very few dead people walking into voter precincts and casting ballots.
You have no evidence that says a lack of a photo id will increase accuracy. Would that have changed the accuracy of votes in Ohio where vote totals changed from the time exit polls were taken and ballots were counted? No. Would they make it more accurate when people push the Ralph Nader button and Pat Buchanan's name comes up? No.
"If it does, then the photo ID requirement for driving constitutes denial of the right to drive on the streets paid for by the taxpayer; the photo ID requirement for flying constitutes denial of the right to travel through the air space that equally belongs to all US citizens"
Driver's licenses haven't always required a photo id. They added that as just a way to identify people. It isn't necessary. I would say the same for pilot's licenses.
But when I go to vote, they don't even ask me for my voter registration card. And if you are concerned for that, then they should add a photo to the voter registration card, but not force voters to come up with additional id.
"Why do I have to have id to get id? If I had id, I wouldn't need id!"
"
Without a photo ID requirement, what's to keep ruthless, immoral, racist KKKarl Roveian swines from paying Nadir, Six, Tom, and Paul $200 cash each to register them, and then sending that uncle tom, self-hating stooge Lynn Swan to vote four times (once for each of them), with the $200 purchasing our pledge not to attempt to vote ourselves?"
You're making up bogus shit. You don't have a real reason why an id should be required.
"What about the very requirement of voter registration? The old people and others who lack photo ID, do you approve requiring them to register in the first place? What about even requiring them to move from their bed to the voting precinct? Or lifting their hand to complete an absentee ballot? And then MAILING it?"
You're just being ridiculous.
Nadir: I don't have a real reason to require an ID? I just explained many reasons... and I didn't say that a photo ID would would solve all possible acts of voter fraud. What I said is that a photo ID would solve (or at least reduse) certain sorts of voter fraud, such as:
1. Non-citizens voting.
2. Paul voting for Nadir.
Those are acts of voter fraud; they are not the only acts of voter fraud. I asked you to explain how to ensure gainst voter fraud without requiring an ID. You have a burden to explain how, without photo IDs, you can prevent an illegal German immmigrant from voting, and me voting for you. Please answer this challange.
My concerns are real and clear: people casting votes at the booth who are not US citizens, and voting in place of semebody else. Your concerns are rediculous: requiring a photo ID to vote will "disenfranchise" people who... what? Don't want to prove their identity?
Then at the end you agree to have photos added to voter registration cards. This really perplexes me. How does this differ from what I'm asking for?
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