2006-10-12

White supremacist Minutemen and the anti-immigrant movement

The bourgeois media has treated these neo-fascist groups as legitimate voices whose opinions against immigration are valid and measured. They have positioned hate groups like the Minuteman Project and Save Our State as normal U.S. citizens who are merely concerned about immigration.

The relationship was highlighted in the capitalist media attacks aimed at Columbia University students who, on Oct. 4, caused Minutemen leader Jim Gilchrist to terminate his speech at the school by chanting and taking the stage where he spoke.

Gilchrist, an arch-racist, has characterized undocumented workers as people whose "intentions are to just squat here and plunder whatever social benefits our programs provide them." He has said that "every time a Mexican flag is planted on American soil, it is a declaration of war."

Save Our State, a Los Angeles-based hate group named after the anti-immigrant coalition behind Prop. 187, has been leading protests against undocumented workers all over the city. Members of neo-Nazi groups have appeared at the rallies with swastika flags, chanting "Sieg Heil."

SOS leader Joe Turner has said there is nothing he can do to stop Nazis from joining his group. Nor does he want to stop them. Turner, an unrepentant, arrogant racist, shares their white supremacist ideology. "Just because you’re a white separatist doesn’t make you a racist," said Turner.

Six & Paul: Let's see how much you guys believe in free speech. A six-pack of high brow barley wine says both of you will scoff at this article just because of the title on the linked page and the website where it was posted - not because the information isn't well referenced (it is) but because of the ideology of the posters.

I'm betting that you will give the article less credence because the author comes from a different worldview, though he presents adequate evidence to back up his claims.

8 comments:

Paul Hue said...

The article supports its blanket charactorization of the Minute Men as "racist" entirely on two rhetorical pillars:

1. The following views, espoused by the MM, are inherently racist:
- Nations should permit into their borders only those who have formal, legal, documented permission.
- Non-citizens should not qualify for a nation's social services.
- Other similar views.

2. Some Minute Men leaders are racists, as demonstrated by comments such as "blacks are inferrior" or membership in plainly racist groups, such as the CCC.

But (1) abvove is entirely invalid. There is nothing inherently racist about any of those views which unify and define the minute men. And (2) above only applies to some Minute Men. I agree that white racists would oppose immigration of non-whites into the US, and that they would thus support the Minute Men. But that doesn't make the Minute Men racist. White racists also be definition oppose NAFTA, as they share the belief with Nadir and Pat Buchannon that free trade shifts high-paying jobs away from the US (where honkies compose over half the population) to nations where honkies compose none of the population. Does this make Nadir a pro-white racists, because he shares with the CCC a disdain for "outsourcing"? Does this make all protectionist organizations racist, as they will inevitably attract some honkey racists?

The Minute Men are not "vigillantes", at least not to anybody who knows the definition of the word and the facts of the Minute Men. Nadir, do you consider "Neighborhood Watch" groups to be "Vigillantes"? Is that what those NYC Guardian Angles were back in the 1970s? Walking around and calling the police when they saw people breaking the law?

Nadir said...

"The Minute Men are not "vigillantes", at least not to anybody who knows the definition of the word and the facts of the Minute Men. Nadir, do you consider "Neighborhood Watch" groups to be "Vigillantes"? Is that what those NYC Guardian Angles were back in the 1970s? Walking around and calling the police when they saw people breaking the law?"

Webster.com defines "vigilante" as follows:

"A member of a volunteer committee organized to suppress and punish crime summarily (as when the processes of law are viewed as inadequate); broadly : a self-appointed doer of justice."

The Minutemen are vigilantes.

Neighborhood Watch groups are vigilantes.

The Black Panther Party for Self Defense was a vigilante group.

Nadir said...

Paul says: "The article supports its blanket charactorization of the Minute Men as "racist" entirely on two rhetorical pillars:

1. The following views, espoused by the MM, are inherently racist:
- Nations should permit into their borders only those who have formal, legal, documented permission.
- Non-citizens should not qualify for a nation's social services.
- Other similar views.

2. Some Minute Men leaders are racists, as demonstrated by comments such as "blacks are inferrior" or membership in plainly racist groups, such as the CCC."

I don't believe the article makes the first claim at all. I will grant the second.

sixstringslinger said...

Any neo-nazi types, or anti-(insert minority here) types that have glommed onto the Minute-Man movement are, I am confidently sure, no more representative overall of the MM than are some of the wacked-out freaks who tag along and join in on your WCW/DOTBR festivals.

Or are they?

They certainly aren't any more hateful than the hate-speech spewing Hamas/Hezbollah-virus supporters who, by invite, have free reign to spew their vile, anti-Irael tripe at virtually any university around the country.

Or are they?

Oh, the double standards.

Nadir said...

Hey, there are some freaky folks hanging out with WCW. I won't deny that. I haven't run across any of them who are racist, though.

Hamas and Hezbollah are legitimate resistance organizations who sometimes use terror as a tactic, much to my chagrin. This does not reduce their status as legitmate resistance groups, but it does limit their effectiveness and their moral standing.

The Minutemen have no legitimate reason to be on the border because they can only hope to stop a very small percentage of undocumented workers who are just that, coming across the border to find work, not to mooch off the US social services system. If that is their reason for coming, they will be sorely disappointed because they are not eligible for the meager benefits that are provided to our poorest citizens.

The Minutemen are trying to frighten, terrorize and possibly kill desperate people who just want a better life for themselves. How can you defend their practices?

Paul Hue said...

Nadir: All the evidence supporting your charactorizations of the MM is your imagination, demonstation that some MM are racists, false claims, and irrationality.

False claims:
1. "The Minutemen have no legitimate reason to be on the border because they can only hope to stop a very small percentage of undocumented workers..." This assertion also qualifies as irrationality. The legitimacy of the MM serving the same purpose as Neighborhood Watch and the Guardian Angles has nothing to do with what fraction of intruders they might repel. Please specify what laws they are breaking. They are US citizens operating on public lands, or on private property with the owner's approval. It is the illegal immigrants who are "illegitimate"!

2. "...coming across the border to find work, not to mooch off the US social services system." Some come only to work, and do a great job, better than many native Americans. But the evidedence is overwhelming that these illegal immigrants overwhelm many local social service agencies and school system. Have you read the articles about pregnant women crossing illegally to get better no-cost (to them!) hospital care, and citizenship for their babies.?

3. "they will be sorely disappointed because they are not eligible for the meager benefits that are provided to our poorest citizens." They are "meager" only by your standards, not the standards of the rest of the world, including Mexico.

Irrationality:
1. "The Minutemen are trying to frighten, terrorize and possibly kill desperate people who just want a better life for themselves. How can you defend their practices?" These people should be "frightened" by US citizens observing them breaking laws, and reporting them to authorities: the Minute Men are busting them breaking a law. You would also be frieghted if you tried to sneak into Canada, and you spotted some Canadian citizens who reported you. But "terorrized"? Do you know what that word means? Apparently not, unless you are correct in your hysterical, factless assertion that the MM will start killing these people.

2. "Hamas and Hezbollah are legitimate resistance organizations". If they are "legitimate", then you have no standards for these words, and everybody on earth can "legitimately" create paramilitary groups to employ terror to right every conceivable past wrong, and to impose their religion onto other people. Irish Americans can start "legitimate" paramilitary groups in Chicago and New York to demand compensation for their ancestors getting screwed over by the Pullman company, and for police departments employing brutality to enforce company anti-strike policies... and demanding erection of a Catholic government that forces everybody to practice catholicism? How about southern honkies demanding restitution for the destruction of their ancestors' homes by union soldiers, who invaded in violation of the US constitution... and demanding a racist government that strips non-whites of citizenship and civil rights? How about Germans forming groups that attack Italy, demanding restitution for the Roman invasions and conquests?

WHERE WILL IT END? Everybody's got a gripe -- legitimate in their eyes -- about some past injustice. Some of these gripes even we both agree with.

Paul Hue said...

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/16/D8KPNT380.html

Nadir: Are South Koreans "racist" for having a big fence and tightly controlled immigration with North Korea? How about the Chinese and their fence and tight immigration policies along their NK border?

Paul Hue said...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2282924,00.html

How about South Africans, and their attempts to stop illegal crossings from Zimbabwe? Are they racist?